Comments on: Remixing RiP: Two blogs debate the hit copyright documentary http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/ political art & cultural policy Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:59:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: leslie dreyer http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/comment-page-1/#comment-1285 leslie dreyer Thu, 16 Apr 2009 01:24:03 +0000 http://artthreat.net/?p=1890#comment-1285 This may be a little too late. Sorry. The screening of RiP at AAFF was packed, and the audience was incredibly lively and hungry for info on the process of making an open source doc as well as legal logistics. For the most part, everyone seemed thrilled that this info (that may not be groundbreaking according to Miall) was compiled in a way that was entertaining and inspiring yet paletable enough to strike a chord within the mainstream. The main argument was that there were no women featured in the film. Mark Hosler of Negativeland then suggested that the film remain open on the website opensourcecinema.org and remixed to be more inclusive. Haven't checked the additions, but hopefully they're in the works. In regards to Miall's other comment, "how does art continue to get made if nobody pays for it," I think the answer was right before his very eyes. People just keep making it regardless of the money. Multiple artists contributed to the making of RiP without pay. They are coming up with other ways of earning income from their works. The Ann Arbor Film Fest was a testament that people still pay for digital works to support artists. Several filmmakers who screened works and participated in Q&As or panel discussions sold multiple DVD copies of their films. I think more and more people are realizing they have to collaborate, pool resources, participate public events, and invent new or hybrid methods to earn income and distribute their work. This may be a little too late. Sorry.

The screening of RiP at AAFF was packed, and the audience was incredibly lively and hungry for info on the process of making an open source doc as well as legal logistics. For the most part, everyone seemed thrilled that this info (that may not be groundbreaking according to Miall) was compiled in a way that was entertaining and inspiring yet paletable enough to strike a chord within the mainstream. The main argument was that there were no women featured in the film. Mark Hosler of Negativeland then suggested that the film remain open on the website opensourcecinema.org and remixed to be more inclusive. Haven't checked the additions, but hopefully they're in the works.

In regards to Miall's other comment, "how does art continue to get made if nobody pays for it," I think the answer was right before his very eyes. People just keep making it regardless of the money. Multiple artists contributed to the making of RiP without pay. They are coming up with other ways of earning income from their works. The Ann Arbor Film Fest was a testament that people still pay for digital works to support artists. Several filmmakers who screened works and participated in Q&As or panel discussions sold multiple DVD copies of their films. I think more and more people are realizing they have to collaborate, pool resources, participate public events, and invent new or hybrid methods to earn income and distribute their work.

]]> By: TodeMinee http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/comment-page-1/#comment-1137 TodeMinee Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:36:52 +0000 http://artthreat.net/?p=1890#comment-1137 Great site this artthreat.net and I am really pleased to see you have what I am actually looking for here and this this post is exactly what I am interested in. I shall be pleased to become a regular visitor :) Great site this artthreat.net and I am really pleased to see you have what I am actually looking for here and this this post is exactly what I am interested in. I shall be pleased to become a regular visitor :)

]]> By: Ezra Winton http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/comment-page-1/#comment-1094 Ezra Winton Sun, 29 Mar 2009 22:42:18 +0000 http://artthreat.net/?p=1890#comment-1094 Thanks for checking us out and we hope you keep coming Raiul! Cheers! Thanks for checking us out and we hope you keep coming Raiul! Cheers!

]]> By: Ezra Winton http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/comment-page-1/#comment-1093 Ezra Winton Sun, 29 Mar 2009 22:41:30 +0000 http://artthreat.net/?p=1890#comment-1093 Leslie, let us know what happened at the screening and thanks for the comments. Leslie, let us know what happened at the screening and thanks for the comments.

]]> By: RaiulBaztepo http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/comment-page-1/#comment-1091 RaiulBaztepo Sun, 29 Mar 2009 00:42:18 +0000 http://artthreat.net/?p=1890#comment-1091 Hello! Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource! PS: Sorry for my bad english, I'v just started to learn this language ;) See you! Your, Raiul Baztepo Hello!
Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource!
PS: Sorry for my bad english, I’v just started to learn this language ;)
See you!
Your, Raiul Baztepo

]]> By: leslie http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/comment-page-1/#comment-1080 leslie Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:10:12 +0000 http://artthreat.net/?p=1890#comment-1080 Thanks for this in depth commentary/debate. I've been in an Ann Arbor Film Fest Fair Use panel for the past 2 hours with Mark Hosler of Negativeland, Craig Baldwin and 2 intellectual property lawyers. The lawyers, admitting that corporate control of art is out of control, provided necessary facts that artists should know to protect themselves. However, Baldwin quickly added we really just don't need the law in these matters, and that they should be taken up between the original artist and the other using/manipulating/re-interpreting the original work. Hosler takes the stand that, "If you want true control over your work, then keep it in your bedroom and share it only with your family." In these days and times, nothing is private. Once you make something and share it with the public, it is out of your hands, and this is the true bargain of public domain. He went on to say that we should make work with the thought that it is for the greater good of bettering arts, science, etc., and that is more important than personal ownership. His last suggestion to the audience was to "operate as if these ridiculous laws don't exist." The debate will be continued this Friday night as RiP will play in the Michigan Theater in Ann Arbor followed by a Q and A with Gaylor and Mark Hosler. Will send more commentary afterwards. Hope to see you there! Thanks for this in depth commentary/debate. I've been in an Ann Arbor Film Fest Fair Use panel for the past 2 hours with Mark Hosler of Negativeland, Craig Baldwin and 2 intellectual property lawyers. The lawyers, admitting that corporate control of art is out of control, provided necessary facts that artists should know to protect themselves. However, Baldwin quickly added we really just don't need the law in these matters, and that they should be taken up between the original artist and the other using/manipulating/re-interpreting the original work. Hosler takes the stand that, "If you want true control over your work, then keep it in your bedroom and share it only with your family." In these days and times, nothing is private. Once you make something and share it with the public, it is out of your hands, and this is the true bargain of public domain. He went on to say that we should make work with the thought that it is for the greater good of bettering arts, science, etc., and that is more important than personal ownership. His last suggestion to the audience was to "operate as if these ridiculous laws don't exist."

The debate will be continued this Friday night as RiP will play in the Michigan Theater in Ann Arbor followed by a Q and A with Gaylor and Mark Hosler. Will send more commentary afterwards. Hope to see you there!

]]> By: Malithgow http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/comment-page-1/#comment-1068 Malithgow Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:44:50 +0000 http://artthreat.net/?p=1890#comment-1068 An excellent and under-appreciated point being made, Ezra. Artists produce art. They produce it in poverty. They produce it in obscurity. They produce it in the face of imprisonment. They produce it in the face of death. Copyright does not ensure the continued production of art, the human spirit and the creative imagination do. Copyright redirects flows of monetary value that arise around and through the production of culture in a market context. Yes, of course, making a living in our society is desirable and essential. But most of the wealth that flows from copyright laws flows to entities other than the artist, to publishing and distributing companies. Only a tiny tiny handful of artists become wealthy superstars, the vast majority squeak by on modest incomes. Increasingly rigid and encompassing intellectual property laws do nothing to change this. An excellent and under-appreciated point being made, Ezra. Artists produce art. They produce it in poverty. They produce it in obscurity. They produce it in the face of imprisonment. They produce it in the face of death. Copyright does not ensure the continued production of art, the human spirit and the creative imagination do. Copyright redirects flows of monetary value that arise around and through the production of culture in a market context. Yes, of course, making a living in our society is desirable and essential. But most of the wealth that flows from copyright laws flows to entities other than the artist, to publishing and distributing companies. Only a tiny tiny handful of artists become wealthy superstars, the vast majority squeak by on modest incomes. Increasingly rigid and encompassing intellectual property laws do nothing to change this.

]]> By: RiP! A Remix Manifesto: now it’s a real debate « Laurence Miall http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/comment-page-1/#comment-1062 RiP! A Remix Manifesto: now it’s a real debate « Laurence Miall Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:30:36 +0000 http://artthreat.net/?p=1890#comment-1062 [...] with no end of great conversation this week, both at the National Film Board of Canada, and online. Ezra Winton’s response at Art Threat is thorough-going and articulate and because I still hold to pretty much all my [...] [...] with no end of great conversation this week, both at the National Film Board of Canada, and online. Ezra Winton’s response at Art Threat is thorough-going and articulate and because I still hold to pretty much all my [...]

]]> By: Laurence_Miall http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/comment-page-1/#comment-1061 Laurence_Miall Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:53:46 +0000 http://artthreat.net/?p=1890#comment-1061 There is a lot to follow up on here because, of course, Ezra and I are still in disagreement! But maybe there's some common ground. In the spirit of this debate, I'll respond on my own blog and liberally quote from Art Threat to try and elaborate on points that the constraints of my "review" permitted only a cursory summary. Chiefly, I feel compelled to defend the notion of narrative, because I do not agree at all that the choice is between the plotless and uncompelling (to me!) RiP and the generic Hollywood story arc. I'm going to pretentiously borrow a lot from Susan Sontag. Stay tuned. There is a lot to follow up on here because, of course, Ezra and I are still in disagreement! But maybe there's some common ground. In the spirit of this debate, I'll respond on my own blog and liberally quote from Art Threat to try and elaborate on points that the constraints of my "review" permitted only a cursory summary. Chiefly, I feel compelled to defend the notion of narrative, because I do not agree at all that the choice is between the plotless and uncompelling (to me!) RiP and the generic Hollywood story arc. I'm going to pretentiously borrow a lot from Susan Sontag. Stay tuned.

]]> By: Laurence_Miall http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/comment-page-1/#comment-1060 Laurence_Miall Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:53:46 +0000 http://artthreat.net/?p=1890#comment-1060 There is a lot to follow up on here because, of course, Ezra and I are still in disagreement! But maybe there's some common ground. In the spirit of this debate, I'll respond on my own blog and liberally quote from Art Threat to try and elaborate on points that the constraints of my "review" permitted only a cursory summary. Chiefly, I feel compelled to defend the notion of narrative, because I do not agree at all that the choice is between the plotless and uncompelling (to me!) RiP and the generic Hollywood story arc. I'm going to pretentiously borrow a lot from Susan Sontag. Stay tuned. There is a lot to follow up on here because, of course, Ezra and I are still in disagreement! But maybe there's some common ground. In the spirit of this debate, I'll respond on my own blog and liberally quote from Art Threat to try and elaborate on points that the constraints of my "review" permitted only a cursory summary. Chiefly, I feel compelled to defend the notion of narrative, because I do not agree at all that the choice is between the plotless and uncompelling (to me!) RiP and the generic Hollywood story arc. I'm going to pretentiously borrow a lot from Susan Sontag. Stay tuned.

]]> By: mila http://artthreat.net/2009/03/remixing-rip-two-blogs-debate-the-hit-copyright-documentary/comment-page-1/#comment-1059 mila Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:35:58 +0000 http://artthreat.net/?p=1890#comment-1059 Cool critiques here, thanks for writing and posting this Ezra. I love the feeling of two giant intellectual art blogs exchanging body blows with each other, and with us, over the film. It's funny how much you <i>don't </i>consider when putting together a movie. Cool critiques here, thanks for writing and posting this Ezra. I love the feeling of two giant intellectual art blogs exchanging body blows with each other, and with us, over the film. It's funny how much you don't consider when putting together a movie.

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